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This thread is in response to an article about Final Fantasy XIII on the PlayStation 3. You are encouraged to view the article in a new window before reading this thread.

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Author: holdthephone
Posted: November 23, 2011 (10:24 AM)
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As I said, I fully expect to see something like an HD brush over, that takes very little work indeed, I agree. I thought you guys said FFVI with Advent Children visuals, which is wooaaahhhh. Simple handheld remakes and touch ups do not equate to rebuilding an entire game to HD console standards -- that's a shaky analogy. It's a huge undertaking, and not necessary considering their new games still push the usual amount of units. There problem isn't sales, it's inefficient development time while attempting to break into the new market. A call back to the old forms of game design would only hurt them at this point.

I'm sure we'll see some brushed up remakes on Vita or what have you, easy money to be made there.


Mobius 1, engage...


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Author: overdrive (Mod)
Posted: November 23, 2011 (12:38 PM)
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I thought Square was onto something with XII, as the world was probably as close to a meld between JRPG and western ones (vast, open exploration, loaded with secret bosses in the Marks, Rare Game, Espers, etc.). To me, the main weakness was that the actual plot was pretty generic. I cared more about hunting down the next high-level mark than I did about doing things like challenging Vayne for ownership of the world or whatever. But, I could also say that about a game like Oblivion. What was more interesting: the "save the world from demon-god invasion" main plot or things like the guild storylines or even random exploration where you find wilderness caves and settlements and see what mischief you can get into there? I thought FF XII was a solid game that with some refining, could be a good launching pad for the franchise to really reinvent itself.

So they followed that up with a game that puts you on rails until Chapter 11 (of 13). And the sad thing is that now that I can explore areas and do optional missions, the main thing I'm noticing is how virtually every battle goes like this:

1. COM/RAV/RAV for the win.

2. If monster has a lot of HP, switch to COM/COM/RAV for when they're staggered.

3. If I take a lot of damage, switch to SEN/MED/MED for healing. Switch back when all is well.

I mean, it works for when there's something good on TV, because I can do most stuff in this game while paying about 10 percent attention to things, but I'm not sure that "The game you can play while multi-tasking 50 other things" is the best selling point possible. It's kinda like the complaint I've seen some people have about Dragon Quest games where you mainly just tap the attack button with the occasional burst of spellcasting to get through fights. Except here, the animations take longer.


I'm not afraid to die because I am invincible
Viva la muerte, that's my goddamn principle


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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 23, 2011 (04:30 PM)
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I hold to what I said in my review of FFXIII. Which was basically what Rob just said.

When I try to picture the next FF game I would actually play, I get little images in my head. I picture the vibrancy of the world of FFXII, with the more fairy-tale story telling of games pre-FFVII, involving a cast of interesting but SUBTLE characters, such as we haven't had since FFX, but without the moroseness that has pervaded the series since FFVII.

Essentially, I picture a pre-FFVII final fantasy, but one which uses nicer graphics (though uber-realism is not a prerequisite and removing that perceived need may well get SE that earlier release date they are looking for) and a battle system that moves away from traditional ATB.

On that note, I am interested in the more Kingdom-Hearts style FFVersus but the last press release said "the darkest FF since FFVII!"

I loved FFVII, but !@#$!mit... put the horse to rest already.

Because, really, the best thing about FFXII is that it was totally nothing like FFVII.


Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic."


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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 23, 2011 (04:49 PM)
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Just reread Suskie's review. I'd forgotten how awesome this paragraph is:

Most of the cast is disappointingly one-note as well, and you could probably surmise much about each of them based on their appearances and physical mannerisms alone: Vanille is a perky, overly effeminate pile of squeals, Snow has a popped collar, Hope (or Destiny or Inspiration or whatever his name is) singularly defines “angsty” in a genre where that word crops up too frequently already, and Lightning (ugh) is the sort of stoic and valiant protagonist – with caged emotions! – that doesn’t work nearly as well now that Lost Odyssey has so brilliantly deconstructed that archetype. Only Szszzhzh resonates as someone genuinely relatable, which is odd, considering he’s a black guy with a chocobo living in his fro (a frocobo if you will). With the game having a safe 40 hours for character development, I was hoping the cast would surprise me and rise above their generic outward appearances, but that didn’t happen. Oh, what’s that, Lightning? You call yourself that because you don’t want people to know your real name? Piss off.


Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic."


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Author: espiga
Posted: November 23, 2011 (06:02 PM)
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When I try to picture the next FF game I would actually play, I get little images in my head. I picture the vibrancy of the world of FFXII, with the more fairy-tale story telling of games pre-FFVII,

Square Enix made that game already and everyone bashed on it. It was called Final Fantasy XI.


Your girlfriend's name ends in .jpg


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Author: honestgamer (Mod)
Posted: November 23, 2011 (06:29 PM)
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Final Fantasy XI and Final Fantasy XIV should have been released as Final Fantasy Online and Final Fantasy Online 2, respectively. They do not belong in the "main" series, not even a little bit. Square-Enix was stupid for beliving otherwise not once but twice.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality

"What if everything you see is more than what you see--the person next to you is a warrior and the space that appears empty is a secret door to another world? What if something appears that shouldn't? You either dismiss it, or you accept that there is much more to the world than you think. Perhaps it really is a doorway, and if you choose to go inside, you'll find many unexpected things." - Shigeru Miyamoto


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Author: espiga
Posted: November 23, 2011 (07:35 PM)
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Can you offer a compelling reason why they don't belong in the "main" series? As it stands, FFXI is a finer game than any of the "main" series and--to me, at least-- encompasses more of the "Final Fantasy" feeling than any game to carry the title in the past decade.

As for XIV, well. That game was released before it was even halfway finished. I'll reserve judgment on it until the game receives its 2.0 release.


Your girlfriend's name ends in .jpg


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Author: honestgamer (Mod)
Posted: November 23, 2011 (08:07 PM)
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Actually, I'm going to nuke the original version of this post for now. I'll edit in a better answer shortly.

Okay, I'm back...

Final Fantasy games have always been about the singular experience. You are in control of a party of heroes as they venture out against evil that threatens to consume the whole world. That was true from the original, with its four light warriors, all the way up through the battle against Sin in Final Fantasy X.

An RPG and an MMORPG are really not the same deal at all. That's particularly true if you compare a JRPG (such as Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior or the Tales or Shin Megami titles). Not just in the Final Fantasy series but as part of any standard RPG, you are directing that band of heroes through an involving world populated by distinct characters who are interesting for reasons beyond the armor you might receive if you complete their side quest.

Blizzard understood this, which is why World of Warcraft wasn't called Warcraft 4. Sonic Team understood it, too, or we'd have a Phantasy Star V right now instead of Phantasy Star Online.

The dynamic when you wander a world in a Final Fantasy game ahead of X was much different. Even in X, it was much different from XI or XIV. The primary reason for that--and it makes a really huge difference--is the player dynamic.

An MMO is built around the notion that as a player, you will team up with other players. Involving NPCs work against that, so they're not included. Constant forward momentum for the plot is also unnecessary, because a detailed plot is difficult to manage when players are joining and dropping out of adventures all the time. For the most part, an MMO really is just a series of fetch quests with a loose narrative tying everything together. The reason to play is to grind so that you can find better armor and gain new quests so that you can find better armor and gain new quests until finally you have explored every area 50 times and gone on dozens or raids or whatever.

It's a completely different dynamic. Someone who adores Final Fantasy VII is looking for a dramatically different experience compared to someone who likes Final Fantasy XIV.

This is not to say that Final Fantasy VII is a better game than Final Fantasy VII. Preferences are going to determine who likes what, and no one is right or wrong in that regard. They're apples and oranges, which is precisely why they don't belong in the same series.

Square-Enix had the chance to establish a new offshoot, a Final Fantasy Online series that could use the Final Fantasy name to its advantage but which would at the same time head off in its own direction. Instead, the company has dilluted the brand as a whole in its effort to capitalize on the MMO craze. This was a mistake, and one that the company repeated for no good reason.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality

"What if everything you see is more than what you see--the person next to you is a warrior and the space that appears empty is a secret door to another world? What if something appears that shouldn't? You either dismiss it, or you accept that there is much more to the world than you think. Perhaps it really is a doorway, and if you choose to go inside, you'll find many unexpected things." - Shigeru Miyamoto


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Author: Suskie
Posted: November 23, 2011 (09:28 PM)
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Reading through this thread makes me realize how much I hate Roman numerals.

My opinion of the Final Fantasy series is that it doesn't exist. I see so many conversations on the internet analyzing this brand, comparing and contrasting games that have virtually nothing in common other than falling into the same (relatively broad) genre. They have a bit of shared terminology (sometimes), but their stories, characters, worlds, themes, mechanics, and even visual styles wildly differ from one game to the next. Even the name "Final Fantasy" is stupid, and the only reason it held together was because there was a time (i.e. the SNES days) when each entry was of such consistently high quality that it became the measuring stick for everything else in the genre, and I think we can agree that Final Fantasy is no longer at that level. SE doesn't even seem to know what to do with the brand. They seem to be reinventing it with every new game, and two of the last four entries have been freakin' MMOs, which, as Jason already pointed out, appeals to a completely different group of people.

We know what to expect when Activision says they plan to put out a new Call of Duty game every year; same with Ubisoft and Assassin's Creed. But when SE says they want to release a new Final Fantasy every year, that has no effect on me, because Final Fantasy as a brand doesn't mean anything. All they're saying, in my mind, is that they want to make more JRPGs. Whoop-de-do.

Zelda is a series. Halo is a series. When a new Final Fantasy game is released, no one ever has any idea what to expect. So why do we still care?


You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.


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Author: zigfried (Mod)
Posted: November 23, 2011 (10:06 PM)
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I would contend that FFXII was an MMORPG for lonely people.

//Zig


Unlimited Zig Works!


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Author: jerec
Posted: November 24, 2011 (03:49 AM)
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The level of disappointment I still feel for FFXIII amazes me. I still want to jump in and complain about the game some more, but then I remember I wrote a therapeutic review to get it all out of my system. I'm still interested in FFXIII-2 but I'm understandably cautious.

Characters are important, and I'd really like to see a FF game surprise me with character development. You know, we'll always have a broody loner warrior, but can we peel away the layers and learn more about them so that in the end, that character can't actually be described in a couple of words.

Has anyone seen Plinket's reviews for the Star Wars prequel trilogy? There's an excellent bit about character where people had to describe characters from the movies. Most of the prequel characters could be described in a couple of words, but a character like Han Solo, who at first would be described as a rogue leads to "but this and that".

At the very least, I want to see FF characters become MORE interesting after their character development, rather than losing the only trait that distinguished them from the rest of the party.

Edit: It happened again. I started ranting.


I can avoid death by not having a life.


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Author: joseph_valencia
Posted: November 24, 2011 (12:55 PM)
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Han Solo is arguably the least complex character in Star Wars.


Spaceworlder was able to build this sig IN A CAVE…… WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!!


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