This thread is in response to an article about Final Fantasy XIII on the PlayStation 3. You are encouraged to view the article in a new window before reading this thread.
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Author: overdrive (Mod)
Posted: November 21, 2011 (09:58 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Yes. Because when I think of mistakes with the Final Fantasy series in recent years, the first thing that comes to mind is how they take too much time to make games. Hell, why didn't they take longer with XIII to give them time to come to the conclusion that having most of the game being linear and on rails isn't the greatest of ideas?
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Author: joseph_valencia
Posted: November 21, 2011 (10:11 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Yes, that's just what that brand needs. More saturation.
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Author: bbbmoney
Posted: November 21, 2011 (10:22 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Final Fantasy XIII was well received in the grand scheme of things, and I personally thought it stood up there with the rest of the franchise --
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Author: SamildanachEmrys
Posted: November 21, 2011 (11:02 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
The fall in popularity is due to the decline in quality and maybe even a general disinterest in JRPGs. I can see that the timescale is much more protracted than it used to be, but I think games now just take longer to make.
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Author: honestgamer
Posted: November 21, 2011 (11:05 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
If Square-Enix has a few teams sharing basic technology and working on Final Fantasy games over a period of 2 or 3 years apiece and thus the market sees a new Final Fantasy game every year or two (the Call of Duty model that Kitase likely meant), I don't see how that would be such a bad thing. There's less interest in the JRPG now than there used to be, with the westrn RPG coming to prominence, but I think there's still an audience for quality JRPGs if Square-Enix can make buying one every year or two a habit that gamers don't want to break. This isn't really as ludicrous an idea as a lot of people are suggesting.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 21, 2011 (04:00 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
The problem is that they've been telling the same story since at least FFX. Maybe SE should try doing something new. And then, yeah, it'd be nice after that to have games be released quicker.
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Author: jerec
Posted: November 21, 2011 (05:21 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Could they perhaps make RPGs again? I'm getting tired of these interactive movies.
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Author: joseph_valencia
Posted: November 21, 2011 (06:01 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
They made a full-blooded RPG with FF12, but it seemed everyone hated it. It's still my favorite of all the post-FF9 games.
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Author: bbbmoney
Posted: November 21, 2011 (06:07 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
No kidding, everyone hated FFXII on message boards when it came out as well, and considering how good that game was, I don't think that the older fanbase will ever be pleased with anything Square Enix does. FF is now a brand for a newer generation, the title is just used for marketing. It's just a confusing mess of nostalgia and anger undercutting what are actually very polished pieces of software.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 21, 2011 (10:18 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
FFXII would've been great if any of the characters were likeable. Balthier and Cid were pretty well written, Cid in particular being an actually interesting character, but the other characters had the depth of a kiddy pool.
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Author: honestgamer
Posted: November 21, 2011 (10:31 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
It's no surprise. Characters are the most important part of any fiction, for most viewers or readers or gamers. I tend to start my own fiction with environments, since that is actually what interests me, but as a viewer/reader/gamer I'm in the minority. A lot of people care passionately about characters, and even some of my favorite fiction (such as the Belgariad series by David Eddings) was my favorite because of strong characters. My biggest issue with Final Fantasy XIII, which I found mostly to be a great game, was Hope. I wanted to strangle him most of the way through the game.
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Author: joseph_valencia
Posted: November 21, 2011 (10:38 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Character are nice, but I want a good dungeon crawler, and FF12 was basically that.
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Author: bbbmoney
Posted: November 21, 2011 (10:55 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Interestingly enough, I don't really find any cast from the FF franchise to be inherently deep or to have gone through truly rigorous development -- they are fairly straightforward characters (FFVI is the epitome of this), and I think that's helped carry the games into popularity. Simple characters in a fantastical adventure that conveys powerful themes -- this is a big part of what Japanese game design is. That's not to say the writing is bad simply because it doesn't match something like Planescape Torment, because FF games do indeed have very well executed characters and story arcs, but it's pretty much a whole separate genre of story telling. Japanese RPGs like XIII, for example, really go for the player's heart strings with each line of dialogue. Characters develop via emotional outbursts, where as in a game like Dragon Age, the player is meant to be impressed by the detail within lore and character backgrounds. Whichever game I want to play depends on my mood, really =p.
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Author: Roto13
Posted: November 22, 2011 (06:56 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I would like to go on record as saying that Final Fantasy XII is fantastic. Some of the characters may not be as memorable as the cast from X, but Ivalice quickly became my favourite video game world. Amazing.
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Author: fleinn
Posted: November 22, 2011 (07:20 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
..maybe they should just create something new. They had talented writers when they made FF7&8. Some of that talent made it into the game. Other talent seems to have made sure the game's presentation was taped together, and that there was some kind of link between gameplay and story.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 22, 2011 (09:58 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I don't really find any cast from the FF franchise to be inherently deep or to have gone through truly rigorous development -- they are fairly straightforward characters (FFVI is the epitome of this), and I think that's helped carry the games into popularity.
Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic." |
Author: honestgamer
Posted: November 22, 2011 (11:28 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Final Fantasy VI is the standard by which I judge nearly any RPG that I've ever played since. It's the reason Final Fantasy VII disappointed me so much (because VII really plays too much like VI, only without the spark of personality that the characters in VI produced).
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Author: joseph_valencia
Posted: November 22, 2011 (03:36 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I'm hoping FFXV turns out to be every bit the classic that FFVI was. The problem is, the culture that created Final Fantasy at Squaresoft is gone. Hironobu Sakaguchi left to form Mistwalker, Nobuo Uematsu pretty much followed him, and Yoshitaka Amano is only involved at a promotional level at this point. Even the Ivalice faction of FF is no longer with Square. All that's really left is Tetsuya Nemura, who isn't the character designer he was in 1997.
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Author: fleinn
Posted: November 22, 2011 (06:50 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
(Meanwhile, why not allow the possibility that other studios might have done something interesting with the "jrpg" template..? :) )
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 22, 2011 (07:55 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Of course, if SE was really interested in making a quick buck, all they'd have to do would be to throw together a graphics-enhanced remake of FFVII. Bam. Instant best seller.
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Author: Suskie
Posted: November 22, 2011 (09:22 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Except that they've said repeatedly that an up-to-date version of FFVII would take years and years of development and cost a gargantuan amount of money. It would be a massive hit, and SE still won't do it, which should spell out how impossible it really is.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 22, 2011 (11:27 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I've heard that argument, but it doesn't have as much power when you consider that Final Fantasy XIII cost something like 80 million dollars to produce. They could spend the money. At least this time they'd be gauranteed to sell it. I mean, shit, didn't they sell some ridiculous number of copies of just the PSN rerelease?
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Author: bbbmoney
Posted: November 22, 2011 (11:39 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Alright well it's a bit naive to think you can take something made over a decade ago, brush it up with current generation graphics, and sell 10 million units of the same product in the state of the current industry. A game like VII would need to be reworked in nearly every aspect, and I'd almost say that'd be a harder task than creating a new IP (and easily just as expensive). It's a huge gamble and can easily backfire. I'm sure we'll see mild touch ups and ports, like what we're getting with FFX HD, but if a FFVII or VI remake was really that easy of a cash in, we would have gotten it by now. Square can make a game like XIII instead, push their usual 5-6 million units, and reach out to new audiences. Or they can follow message boards and business advice from doomsayers (obviously not directed at anyone here) -- really I'm not an expert though.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: November 23, 2011 (07:50 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Alright well it's a bit naive to think you can take something made over a decade ago, brush it up with current generation graphics, and sell 10 million units of the same product in the state of the current industry.
Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic." |
Author: bbbmoney
Posted: November 23, 2011 (09:24 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
As I said, I fully expect to see something like an HD brush over, that takes very little work indeed, I agree. I thought you guys said FFVI with Advent Children visuals, which is wooaaahhhh. Simple handheld remakes and touch ups do not equate to rebuilding an entire game to HD console standards -- that's a shaky analogy. It's a huge undertaking, and not necessary considering their new games still push the usual amount of units. There problem isn't sales, it's inefficient development time while attempting to break into the new market. A call back to the old forms of game design would only hurt them at this point.
Mobius 1, engage... |
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