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Forums > Submission Feedback > Suskie's Heavy Rain review

This thread is in response to a review for Heavy Rain on the PlayStation 3. You are encouraged to view the review in a new window before reading this thread.

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Author: CRUSHedagain
Posted: April 03, 2010 (04:15 AM)
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Now see, that's a MODFAIL, OD.

It's been a few years since I've been around, and I couldn't find any of my old login information; so these days, I'm the same name, but cancer-free and switched up a little.


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Author: EmP (Mod)
Posted: April 03, 2010 (05:24 AM)
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'Twould be an easy process to recover said password -- all you need do is ask.

My thoughts on Heavy Rain remain unchanged from their initial cynicalism as I've still had no chance to play it. Perhaps the day that changes is drawing near. Perhaps.


For us. For them. For you.


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Author: CRUSHedagain
Posted: April 03, 2010 (06:14 AM)
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If you're trying to give me back my cancer, you'd better karmatic shift by donating to Make-a-Wish.

Well you know, at this point, David Cage is the same as Peter Molyneux.
There are some changes, sure, by Heavy Rain is just an extension of Indigo Prophecy when it comes down to it. Goofy game with some terrible writing and random-ass glitches.

What can I say, though? It's kind of charming. I like it.


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Author: wolfqueen001
Posted: April 03, 2010 (09:36 AM)
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Haha. He meant your account. I don't think anyone oin their right mind would want to give anyone cancer. =P

But if what you're saying is true... does that mean you used to go under the name 'carcinogen_crush'? If so, then wow... it's been a long time. Certainly before I started coming around. I only know about you through seeing random reviews around site and old blog posts.


What espiga does in his free time
[Eating EmP's brain] probably isn't a good idea. I mean... He's British, which means his brain's wired for PAL and your eyes are NTSC. - Will


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Author: honestgamer (Mod)
Posted: April 03, 2010 (10:31 AM)
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Yeah, I figured out after his first post that it was carcinogen_crush back from the account graveyard, but I wasn't sure he wanted that to be shared everywhere. As noted, password recovery can definitely happen if desired.

As far as this topic goes, it does feel like people are ganging up on Suskie at this point and I'm never a fan of seeing that happen. When we reach the point of applauding others for zingers that they directed at the author of the review in question, we've probably stopped engaging in healthy debate.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality

"What if everything you see is more than what you see--the person next to you is a warrior and the space that appears empty is a secret door to another world? What if something appears that shouldn't? You either dismiss it, or you accept that there is much more to the world than you think. Perhaps it really is a doorway, and if you choose to go inside, you'll find many unexpected things." - Shigeru Miyamoto


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Author: randxian
Posted: April 03, 2010 (12:28 PM)
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As far as this topic goes, it does feel like people are ganging up on Suskie at this point

Perhaps, but I hope Suskie doesn't take criticism too seriously from someone who runs around yelling "TRY MOAR HARDLY!"


I CAN HAS CHEEZBURGER?


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Author: zippdementia
Posted: April 03, 2010 (12:27 PM)
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I don't know about that. People gang up on me here all the time. I kind of think its cute.

But there does get to be a point where I can see that a topic is just going in circles, with the two sides defending equally well completely different points that really have no chance of ever changing either side's viewpoints.

The thing is that people in general, and that definitely includes those here at Honest Gamer, tend to dig in when they've made a decision about something and very rarely will they ever change those opinions. I don't know if it's just human nature (which is generally stubborn about changing its views, because that's tiring) or if it has to do with the reviewing community and how much time we spend building our opinions and defending them, but it usually results in these kind of topics, which are interesting for a while and then just turn into both sides blathering about how right they are.

That's just how things are. I'm okay with that. I'm also bored of this conversation so I'll be moving on to other things now. It's gonna be a crazy week for me, so I might drop out for a bit... finish my Parasite Eve 2 review... the ROTW tomorrow... and then just stay quiet while I get my work done.


Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic."


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Author: Suskie
Posted: April 03, 2010 (02:00 PM)
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Wait... so that's Carcinogen Crush? Damn man, it's been a while. Almost before my time. Almost.

I don't get the sense that people are ganging up on me at all. The only person who's making serious challenges to this review is Zipp, and I certainly can't blame him for wanting to defend one of his favorite games, so long as he remains intelligent and well-mannered about it (which he is). As for Crush... I can't even figure out what he's trying to say. Does he agree with me or does he like Heavy Rain? Am I a troll or not? I'll start listening if he says something worthwhile, but for the moment I'm just sort of tuning him out.

Honestly, I liked the discussion we were having, and seeing as how I have very complicated feelings about this game, I'm more than happy to clarify any subjects y'all are willing to bring up.


You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.


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Author: overdrive (Mod)
Posted: April 03, 2010 (02:56 PM)
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I consider it my goal to have a least one MODFAIL per week.


I'm not afraid to die because I am invincible
Viva la muerte, that's my goddamn principle


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Author: zippdementia
Posted: April 03, 2010 (03:16 PM)
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Note, too, that my boredom with the conversation has more to do with the fact that, if I don't get bored with it, I'm going to keep having it... and that will leave me screwed for everything else I have to get done.

I'd be happy to come back to it, later, though.

Also, just a clarification: though I mean everything I said above about the nature of human stubbornness, One of the nice things about Honest Gamers is that we seem able to have these kind of conversations without hating each other or dropping into flame wars.

That's a huge plus, and it's really due to everyone here staying intelligent and considerate. So thanks for that.


Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic."


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Author: CRUSHedagain
Posted: April 03, 2010 (11:53 PM)
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I really do love you.


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Author: zippdementia
Posted: April 04, 2010 (12:41 AM)
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Come over some time, we'll have sex. It'll be great.


Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic."


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Author: fleinn
Posted: April 04, 2010 (12:54 AM)
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Uh.. *chuckles*.. there are a few real issues with the game you could pick at, you know..

This is just my opinion, but the review reads as if you are occasionally, against your will, actually reviewing the game. You know, I can write a "balanced back and forth" on, say, Battlestar Galactica. And construct it in a way that never will tell you anything about the series. But still end up with explaining how I intensely hate everything about it, even though there are admittedly a few nice scenes once in a while..

But it's still not actually telling you anything about the series. And only really becomes valuable as a way to judge how hip it is with the, in this case, the Honestgamer crowd :p

This was a good line, though. Not because it's favouring the game, but because it touches on what the game sets out to accomplish:

"Ethan is just an ordinary man, and our panicky movements mimic his own fear."

Of course - the interesting part of that scene is that you can choose your own attitude before you start. Whether you're determined, fearful, or if you just decide to give up right there.. The game/story encourage you to decide this while playing. That's the interactive part, basically.

The same with the unnecessary killing, or the triptocaine addiction - it changes an episode or two later. But the message is mirrored in an event towards the end. The killing ends up being turned on the head with the last scene at the roof of the warehouse. The addiction is something that insists that the viewer should decide on more self-destructive fatality than self-preservation, for example. Or perhaps swearing to the job because of duty, or saving the boy out of a sense of redemption - or even a last deed. The combinations are up to you.

These things turn up with very large frequency in the game. And it is not easy to smuggle in that much ambiguity without losing direction and pacing, trust me on this one. :)


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Author: Suskie
Posted: April 04, 2010 (01:53 AM)
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Well, see, this is the great thing about a user review: It doesn't hurt anybody. It's not affecting average press scores, it doesn't represent the collective opinion of any particular media output, and it is in no way "official." It is simply the organized thoughts of a man who didn't like Heavy Rain and decided to write about how he didn't like Heavy Rain. You can choose to take my words into consideration or ignore them. I never would have tried to get this posted as a staff review, even if Jason hadn't written one already. Because no, it wouldn't have been fair.

I do want to clarify something, though: While I'm generally biased against the adventure genre, I didn't rent Heavy Rain with a "this is going to suck and I can't wait to bash it" mindset. See, I'm not totally opposed to the idea of an adventure game being good. The trouble is that I find the genre almost fundamentally flawed in the sense that nearly all adventure games seem to exist for the sole reason of bringing to life some decidedly non-gaming idea on the part of the developer. Still, as I said at the beginning of the review, I'd be willing to forgive Heavy Rain for not being a real game if the storytelling aspects really were as good as they're hyped up to be. Trouble is, they aren't.

Funny thing, though: Very few of the complaints I bring up in my review would still apply if Heavy Rain's playable bits had more meat to them. I compared it to BioWare, my current favorite developer, who I think do a fantastic job of finding middle ground between interactive narrative and gameplay that's certainly engrossing enough to stand on its own. Heavy Rain makes the bold move of dumbing down interactivity to the point that it's barely relevant, and doesn't do enough to compensate for it. This was always going to be an all-or-nothing experience for me.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure all of Heavy Rain's most memorable scenes involved Ethan in some way. Like, the bit with the electric wires was also excellent. Though you couldn't realistically build an entire game around such material, so in a weird way, such sequences are improved by the matter of the rest of the game being so uninteresting.


You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it.


Additional Messages (Groups of 25)

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