This thread is in response to a review for Castlevania: Symphony of the Night on the PlayStation 3. You are encouraged to view the review in a new window before reading this thread.
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Author: Suskie
Posted: January 20, 2010 (05:40 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
He's looking for a fight and you guys are giving it to him. Just sayin'.
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Author: honestgamer
Posted: January 20, 2010 (06:05 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
BioShock's difficulty level didn't harm the game in the slightest, let alone totally ruin in. That's another example of a game where challenge is the last thing anyone should be worrying about while playing it because it had so many other things going right for it and serving as the true focus. Plus you didn't have to use the vita chambers if you didn't want to. The game was designed so that players who chose not to use them found a truly difficult game. Pretty brilliant, actually.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality |
Author: randxian
Posted: January 20, 2010 (06:09 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I'm sorry, but this review is intellecutally dishonest. You mention this all powerful move you have access to at the outset of the game.
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Author: zigfried
Posted: January 20, 2010 (06:51 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I think that raises an interesting question:
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Author: randxian
Posted: January 20, 2010 (07:57 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Exactly. People who fire up the game for the first time would have no idea the move exists, let alone how to actually pull it off.
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Author: overdrive (Mod)
Posted: January 20, 2010 (08:27 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
1. You know, I hadn't thought of this before Rand and Zig mentioned it, but yeah...I have no clue what this special move referenced in the review is. I'm not exactly skilled at fighting games, so those combination moves....I rarely attempted them. I'm sure I hit it once or twice to see what it looked like, but it never was a staple of my offense.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: January 20, 2010 (11:47 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Hold up there, Jackson (read: Randxian and Zig).
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Author: randxian
Posted: January 21, 2010 (03:06 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
If you think the game is trash, so be it. My problem is using examples that are extremely unlikely to happen.
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Author: sashanan
Posted: January 21, 2010 (05:17 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Funny that the question of FAQs came into this. I have argued about SotN in the past that somebody without the aid of a guide or at least word-of-mouth from other gamers could conceivably get the bad ending halfway and think he finished the game. I mean, by the time I got to SotN, I knew that Castlevania loves that trick, but based on the dialogue you get? Without any foreknowledge I don't think I would have recognized it as not being the true ending. I'd just have been disappointed by the short game length. (Precisely this happened to me for real when I first finished Aria of Sorrow.)
"Deep in the earth I faced a fight that I could never win. The blameless and the base destroyed, and all that might have been. -- GK" |
Author: zippdementia
Posted: January 21, 2010 (09:59 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Regardless of the soul sucking move, I give other examples of how the game's challenge was not there for me. Also, I never call the game crap, Rand. That is exactly the kind of knee jerk reaction people have when you say you didn't like the game they happen to love. If you read the review again you'll find that I actually use very fair language with the game and say that I like much of what Igarashi changed about the series. But the lack of challenge, I say, takes away from what would make the game a Castlevania game for me.
Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic." |
Author: zigfried
Posted: January 21, 2010 (10:49 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Okay, fair enough on the FAQ bit... it sounds like you just had an unfortunate experience with SOTN. Your explanation makes sense.
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Author: honestgamer
Posted: January 21, 2010 (10:57 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
That's all well and good, Zipp, but the way that you make the soul sucking move sound in your review doesn't even match the personal experience that you've related in response to questions raised about your review. That's a problem. You're welcome to your opinion that 6/10 is the appropriate score for this game. No one begrudges you that (at least no one who is fair-minded). However, you're not using genuine justification to get there.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality |
Author: honestgamer
Posted: January 21, 2010 (11:32 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Zig and I must be on at the same time. He touched on something that I was thinking but didn't put into words as well as he did. Credibility just so happens to be the most important thing that you can get right (or wrong) when writing a review.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality |
Author: joseph_valencia
Posted: January 21, 2010 (01:09 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I heavily disagree with Zipp on SoTN, but I don't get all this shitstorm over a game review. Maybe it is a jump for him to say the Soul Sucker/whatever move can be gotten off the bat, but I don't doubt that he did learn it and he was able to abuse it. His review presents a unique (quasi-)negative perspective on the game based on his unique experience with it. I think it should stand as it is. Otherwise, it'll just read like every other negative SoTN review. ("Too easy, overpowered, etc. etc.")
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: January 21, 2010 (01:19 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I'll have to think on everything that's been said here. I can tell you that the soul sucking move was available for 95% of my playthrough. Thus, to me, it represents a pretty prominent part of the playthrough and my review.
Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic." |
Author: zigfried
Posted: January 21, 2010 (03:57 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I mostly agree with what Spaceworlder said, just not the "as is" part. It's absolutely an interesting viewpoint (especially now that I know Zipp did find the move by accident) and worth expressing. I am not suggesting that the 'soul steal' example should be removed.
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Author: randxian
Posted: January 21, 2010 (05:27 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
For example, you later bring up the boss that you leapt behind and she couldn't turn around. Normally, that would be a great example to support your point about lack of challenge. But since you exaggerated earlier in the review about the 'soul steal' bit, I found myself wondering:
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Author: Masters (Mod)
Posted: January 21, 2010 (10:10 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Chronicles fucking owns.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: January 21, 2010 (10:33 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
But Randxian, you're doing the exact same thing that you're claiming I've done, only from the other side of the table! You're showcasing a couple bosses you thought were cool. In my review I used two examples because I didn't want to list six or seven bosses that I thought were lame, including the hippogriff, the dumb werewolf minotaur combo (which was a sweet idea poorly executed), the crappy demon who just kept summoning skeletons over and over while I wailed ass on him...
Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic." |
Author: randxian
Posted: January 22, 2010 (05:49 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Okay, I'll concede my point on the bosses. Perhaps I am more or less doing the same thing. Most of the bosses probably are average in terms of coolness. However, very few are absolute pushovers like the one mentioned in the review.
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Author: zippdementia
Posted: January 22, 2010 (09:01 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I respect the opinions of (almost) everyone who has posted on this topic and appreciate the time and attention that was given to this review. It is one of those cases that is hard because I had an experience that went so much against the majority opinion. I would be curious to know if anyone goes back and tries this game out again to hear what their more recent experience with it is like. Sometimes nostalgia makes games better than they are.
Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic." |
Author: sashanan
Posted: January 22, 2010 (11:27 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
On the other hand, it may be the fact that I came to this game so late. The things that would've overwhelmingly impressed me when it first came out, like the graphics or the Super Metroid approach, now just seem cool but not mindblowing and what I'm looking for out of a Castlevania game may have shifted after having played four DS games that play like clones of SOTN.
"Deep in the earth I faced a fight that I could never win. The blameless and the base destroyed, and all that might have been. -- GK" |
Author: zippdementia
Posted: January 22, 2010 (09:07 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
You may be on to something. I only got to SotN after the GBA Castlevanias myself and only finished it after playing the first two DS ones too (Ecclesia wasn't out yet). When you visit it at that point and the whole milestone in Castlevania history it represented is something you've only heard about, not seen at the time, you just go into it differently.
Note to gamers: when someone shoots you in the face, they aren't "gay." They are "psychopathic." |
Author: honestgamer
Posted: January 22, 2010 (09:21 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I share your interest in looking at what a game was attempting to do and rating it accordingly, Zipp, but I'm quite frankly at a loss for words when I see you saying that platforming was one of the developers' goals.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality |
Author: zigfried
Posted: January 22, 2010 (09:21 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I would disagree with that -- I think SOTN did go 100% on its purpose, that purpose being to "explore and discover". It was never intended to be a platformer. Since most of the game lacks any serious environmental hazards, it's safe to say that the clock tower was simply a nostalgic nod to previous episodes.
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