This thread is in response to a review for Uncharted 2: Among Thieves on the PlayStation 3. You are encouraged to view the review in a new window before reading this thread.
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Author: Lewis
Posted: October 22, 2009 (12:21 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Over on Resolution recently, we had someone questioning a score to two decimal places.
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Author: MoreHonestGamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (01:16 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Lewis, my posts and comments have nothing to do with the score, but everything to do with the written article. Also, I'm one of those who are in the train of thought that even if someone doesn't enjoy something themselves, they should still be able to objectively recognise the quality/merits of that medium. For example, there are plenty of people out there who for example, dislike fantasy films, but can and should be able to appreciate the quality of say, the LotR franchise. Zigfrieds written review in general just seems rather aloof and inconsistent, not to mention very alternative and in an extreme minority of opinion.
--- Avid honest gaming fan --- |
Author: radicaldreamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (02:25 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
The problem with your train of thought is that it's wrong. "Merits" and "qualities" are not strictly objective; they only have the pretense of objectivity when there is a diffused consensus on standards. Your LotR example is also inappropriate because it is about recognizing the "objective" qualities of a particular entry in a genre that a given individual dislikes. That's not the case here. Zig dislikes neither the genre nor the particular entry; he merely has a slightly less positive (but still very positive) opinion than the rest of the gaming public or press.
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Author: Lewis
Posted: October 22, 2009 (02:48 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Does being ahead of the curve mean something's innovative? I'm not sure. I haven't played Uncharted 2, so can't comment on that in the context of the game. But in terms of dynamic set-pieces... I can think of plenty of games that have achieved that. How does it stack up next to some of Half-Life 2's sequences, for example? I'd be interested to know.
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Author: sashanan
Posted: October 22, 2009 (02:55 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
But even if it were to deviate from the norm, why is this a problem? Look at any music or film on Metacritic and you'll see an enormous range of opinions, because art and entertainment are subjective experiences. I don't see how it makes sense to mask that by reviewing everything based on what most people will think, because while that keeps a lot of people happy, it does an enormous disservice to the minority who won't be so sure.
"Deep in the earth I faced a fight that I could never win. The blameless and the base destroyed, and all that might have been. -- GK" |
Author: Lewis
Posted: October 22, 2009 (04:08 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
radicaldreamer just completely won the thread.
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Author: MoreHonestGamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (05:52 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Ok, firstly, Levis, please don't take this the wrong way, but you are in no position to even comment on whether his review is fair or not, or perhaps even the merits of the review or the game since you, yourself, have not played it. My guess is Radical hasn't either (but who knows). If you HAD played it, you might have had a different opinion of the review.
--- Avid honest gaming fan --- |
Author: Lewis
Posted: October 22, 2009 (08:27 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Okay!
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Author: zigfried
Posted: October 22, 2009 (11:09 AM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Morehonestgamer ---
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Author: radicaldreamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (12:09 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I don't care if I've never played Uncharted 2. If anything, this gives me a position of neutrality, and you are not really in a position to even comment on whether his review is fair or not because you appear so severely and incurably biased. You are basically saying that Zig is just wrong and that if we had played Uncharted 2 we would know the "truth." The arrogance here is massive.
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Author: Suskie
Posted: October 22, 2009 (01:20 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
MoreHonestGamer, I'm going to take a wild guess here and say you're pretty unfamiliar with this site, so I'd like to fill you in. We're a community of writers who take pride in the quality of our work. Every member of our staff and freelance team fits that description, and I'm not exaggerating when I say our user base is the most consistently talented of any gaming site on the web -- really! Just take a look at our Review of the Week feature, which regularly highlights the best in user-submitted reviews. We're constantly holding reviewing competitions. We treat reviewing as a hobby and are dedicated to it. You need only to take a glance around the site to see what I mean.
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Author: drella
Posted: October 22, 2009 (01:59 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I like this review for one reason.
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Author: zigfried
Posted: October 22, 2009 (02:28 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Since I am posting on 10-minute breaks, I wanted to add a couple notes to Lewis that I didn't have time to type out before....
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Author: honestgamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (03:01 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Drella raises some interesting points, so I'm going to acknowledge that and then jump off wildly in my own new direction...
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy on reality |
Author: SuckingDick
Posted: October 22, 2009 (03:10 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I just registered to pay homage to this site. I respect this site just as much i respected Electronic Gaming Monthly. I may disagree with some reviews (Mass Effect got 10 out of 10, yeah , right.) , but i've noticed this site has one of the most thorough retrogaming reviews, PC-wise and console-wise, which somewhat legitimizes your passion in gaming.
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Author: Lewis
Posted: October 22, 2009 (04:11 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
A true fact: Deus Ex is the only game I would, without any hesitation, award a 10 out of 10.
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Author: radicaldreamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (04:31 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
When I first played the Deus Ex demo, I proudly declared it the best game of all time. I didn't care about the hilariously bad animation, the crappy gunplay, or the basically nonexistent AI.
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Author: SuckingDick
Posted: October 22, 2009 (04:46 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
You don't really believe that because a game offers you multiple ways to solve a stage , it necessarily has to be the best game of all time, don't you ?
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Author: Lewis
Posted: October 22, 2009 (04:55 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
You don't really believe that because a game offers you multiple ways to solve a stage, it necessarily has to be the best game of all time, don't you?
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Author: SuckingDick
Posted: October 22, 2009 (05:00 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Well, if it's not because of freedom , what separates Deus Ex from being a complete feces ?
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Author: MoreHonestGamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (05:01 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
I think it's ironic and rather disheartening that the two people most defending or championing Zig's review have not even played Uncharted 2 themselves. I realise this discussion has so far been relatively well mannered and actually quite fruitful, I however simply have to admit that I find these new revelations rather laughable.
--- Avid honest gaming fan --- |
Author: joseph_valencia
Posted: October 22, 2009 (05:12 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
Okay, so I bought this game and it's really cool but,... I'm stuck at the part with the gorilla that throws turtle shells at you. I don't know how to counter his attacks. Can anyone here give me advice? The female sidekick is useless; all she does is stand there while dinosaurs spit bombs at her. Fucking-A!
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Author: wolfqueen001
Posted: October 22, 2009 (05:45 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
MoreHonestGamer:
[Eating EmP's brain] probably isn't a good idea. I mean... He's British, which means his brain's wired for PAL and your eyes are NTSC. - Will |
Author: radicaldreamer
Posted: October 22, 2009 (05:52 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
It's quite simple. I am defending Zig's review less than I am attacking you for not debating and instead being a fanboy splitting hairs over semantics and claiming that majority opinion is the objective truth. To the extent that I am defending Zig's review, it is based on the manner in which it is written, and in this respect I seem to have more competence and credibility than you.
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Author: overdrive (Mod)
Posted: October 22, 2009 (06:27 PM) Actions: Register for a free user account to post on the forums... |
After finally reading all this thread, I could type for three hours about how I feel about all the stuff being said, but there'd likely be very little original content after all the responses and conversation that's happened. So, two AND ONLY TWO points:
I'm not afraid to die because I am invincible |
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