is it just me or are gamers increasinly becoming like a whining and complaining bunch of kids????
August 04, 2010
"Medal of Honor is like Battlefield:Bad Company 2", "Starcraft II doesnt have LAN", "Xbox 360 S 4GB is a joke" and the list goes on......so i was wondering are gamers becoming more and more ungrateful and complaining douches as time goes on.....i dont remember people complaining so much in the time of the PS2...it only had an 8MB memory card and it only played games, music and movies and it came in only 1 model, the big guy and later the slim dude....and everyone was happy.....but now gamers want wi-fi, big ass hard drives, super duper ultra mega realistic graphics, tons of free DLC and when they do they still complain the wi-fi is too slow or the hard drive isnt big enough......
maybe developers of both software and hardware should cut down their offerings in terms of content so that the complaining would stop.....
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fleinn - August 04, 2010 (03:15 AM) ..I don't know. If you go by the official Playstation boards, the problem is that apparently all but one of the beta-testers have taken it upon themselves to make sure every game is tested for internet appeal, instead of bugs. So they're most interested in negative feedback, and then they report that feedback as "problems" with the game. I.e., "it is a problem that Kratos kills women, because it offends mormonman345 on Gaf". Or, "people seem to be annoyed by skilled people being able to punish others for their mistakes and impatience - this is a HUGE problem. FIX FIX FIX!". "The gun is not as good as 'some people' want it to be - FIX!". And that continues, even if it turns out that doing some of these changes will alter the game-design completely. We've seen that with everything from Lair to Killzone and MAG. So I don't know about "gamers". But I know that the playstation community has become dominated completely by whiners and complainers lately. |
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blood-omen - August 04, 2010 (03:39 AM) im quite sure that its just not a problem with the playstation....it has become a problem with all platforms..... |
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S-Cynic - August 04, 2010 (04:31 AM) No, I'm pretty sure it's just you. |
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blood-omen - August 04, 2010 (04:49 AM) @cynic.....thats a relief then..... |
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zippdementia - August 04, 2010 (06:44 AM) To be serious about this for a moment, we have to realize that gamers are a group of people that have only recently been catered to in popular culture. As a member of a group that used to have to just deal with whatever little was dished out in the gaming world with little way to respond to those offerings, it can be exhilirating and overwhelming to suddenly find yourself in the midsts of hundreds of offerings a year, thousands of ads aimed at you, and multiple huge conventions that span the globe. On the one hand, gamers do have a tendency to be whiny and complaining about their products, but if we seem to be in our infancy it's only because games are also in their budding infancy. What we're seeing is gamers getting a real voice for the first time in their lives and they are learning how to use it. |
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Genj - August 04, 2010 (08:23 AM) Video games are mostly played by children and autistic manchildren, so it makes sense. |
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fleinn - August 04, 2010 (09:05 AM) ..that too, I guess. But Zipp is onto something, absolutely. I mean.. we really used to have games made by people setting up a few computers in their basement. Titles like.. Twintris, Hybris or Take 'em Out, for example. Those are not large titles, but they were legendary. At worst the product was programmed almost finished before really being published commercially. And no one talked about mass-appeal, because there wasn't any. Since then, most of the games made are made on order, with large parts of studios not really see the product they have before it's put together. And the projects are chosen based on appeal: they need such and such a game right now. Who will make it? So we've gone from David Lynch to the Cohen Brothers, or something. But.. whatever.. I pick what I like. And there's still a lot to choose from.. at least if you import a few games, and look really hard on internet shops.. What really annoys me is the kind of things done to games after they're released, based on internet noise. That's something.. seriously, I'm never going to get over what happened to Killzone 2 and MAG.. "That french bullpup terrorist crap weapon should not be as strong - fix!". "The screen shakes too much! FIX!". ..I mean, seriously, that's what "the community wanted". Not making that up for effect, or anything like that.. So basicall, there sits someone scouring the internet. And they come up with some sort of "mean opinion" about a part of the game... that presumably prevents a large amount of asked male persons residing in Arkansas from making love to the game in public. ..but.. if that kind of whining is listened to. If they really have publishers kneefalling to noise like that - then what can you expect? Even if they were selling chewing gum, it would be the same way. With those very loud people, who have discovered they have some power, going batshit crazy.. I mean.. |
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asherdeus - August 04, 2010 (09:16 AM) But Medal of Honor's multiplayer is essentially Battlefield: Bad Company 2. I've played it. You don't want to watch the same movies over and over again. You don't want to read the same books over and over again. So why the fuck do we want to play the same games over and over again? Game Informer has previews this month for Call of Duty: Black Ops and Medal of Honor side by side. If you took out the titles, you wouldn't be able to tell the two games apart. I'm not saying that I won't play them, but I think it's healthy and important to have a fan base pushing the industry to do better things. If we just sat here passively, why would developers make better graphics engines? Why would they work to write better stories? If they didn't have a critical fan base judging their work, they wouldn't have a reason to take the hobby forward. |
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RunningFree - August 04, 2010 (09:57 AM) Did you just compare games with movies ? What a dumb piece of shit . Games are divided in genres , and people know what kind of mechanics to expect from each of those genres, just like any other games such as sports , board games, and card games . Things like story or level design is superficial. The core mechanics (shooting/combat, plattforming,customization,cover system) stay the same. If you want variety, play different types of games. If you expect Modern Warfare to Modern Warfare 2 should be as different as Rear Window to Vertigo, then you're a blithering idiot, and should seek help. |
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asherdeus - August 04, 2010 (10:00 AM) Movies are divided into genres too. I can criticize the dozens of shitty, formulaic romantic comedies and still praise the few that break the mold and try to do something different. Thanks for missing the overall point of my message and focusing on the part that you were too retarded to understand, cunt. |
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bluberry - August 04, 2010 (10:08 AM) i don't know shit about the game, but if starcraft II doesn't have lan then that's awful. |
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RunningFree - August 04, 2010 (10:22 AM) You're a fucking idiot , aren't you ? You're suggesting that the difference between Wolfenstein 3D and Half-Life (both FPS) is as huge as the difference between Vertigo and Rear Window (both Psychological Thriller from the same director) ? You're making me sick. If there'S any legit comparison, the difference between Wolfenstein 3D and Half-Life is as huge as difference between cars. One is not 'expressing' yourself when making games like a scriptwriter is when writing a script . You don't press a button everytime you pick ammunitions from dead bodies thanks to advancement in technology, not because the developers 'expressed themselves' . Story is just cosmetic. Story in games is just like story in porn, deal with it. |
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fleinn - August 04, 2010 (10:41 AM) " If they didn't have a critical fan base judging their work" ..true. That's important. But that's not actually what they're interested in. Very often now.. judging by talking to the MAG folks and Guerilla Games.. you have publishers and developers being very clear on the purpose of the feedback. For example, the MAG beta was primarily a way to test the waters, and promote the title. The same happened with Bad Company 2, and other betas. So what they were interested in was whether the game had appeal. Then, afterwards, they started to deliberately change the things they thought did not have appeal, based on the internet noise. So instead of listening for "this works, that's brilliant, this is not that good for this and that reason", they were exclusively interested in smoothing over the corners and rough edges that would potentially harm the reviews and commentary. The same happened with Bad Company 2 - they removed a lot of neat and very.. sensible things from the console-version, purely because there were a few mechanical things that "people" pointed out, that they didn't immediately like. Luckily, that was limited to things you see after having played the game for ten minutes, so no real harm done. But if they had continued that way, the game would have been broken apart, with the justification that "the fans wanted it". So if you've followed some of the discussion after the game's launch, you see that internet people overwhelmingly want the game to have one weapon, not have so many long ranges - they hate every vehicle except the UAV - and of course see no problems with lag affecting the gameplay. But with MAG they didn't have developers and publishers setting some sort of limit, and we really ended up with a game that has every single of those user-suggestions included, even if they contradict each other. So there you have the ultimate fan-criticised and supported game. It's bland, it doesn't nearly resemble what it was initially. And any kind of thought the developers had with how the game should be played has been erased. And what's left is a game where the weapons that internet trolls favour are boosted, with a skill-point pool that defeat the purpose of the class-system, and running speeds that break the game-design in that it required less latency to work properly. They've also changed the spawn/charge set times so all the action on the map happens directly in the middle. The maps are huge, but because of those fan-made changes, the maps could just as well have been half the size or less. Of course, at the same time, Zipper therefore avoided actually doing any of the important fixes, because they focused on small things that separate devs could do and check off on a list. So.. you don't have fans criticising game-devs and their works. Instead you have fans functioning as test-cases to blink out what is believed not to have common appeal. That's what the feedback was used for with MAG. That's the reason why the thumb-stick control was somehow thought to be required for Lair, and that's the reason why the control-scheme in Killzone 2 was trashed (and replaced with a weightless broomstick). "Fan feedback", that told the publisher that "some people" are hostile to a particular idea. -- Just to point this out. If you were writing a book. And then published half of it. Would you then think it is a good idea to rewrite the entire story, because your publisher thinks the public wants more cuddly bears and homosexual cooks? After all, crime stories are old hat, so it has to be changed, right? And if you're a good writer, can't you just smuggle in a tiny little bear? Make him the killer, or something like that? Oh, you can do it! ..seriously, though. That's what the fan-suggestions are exclusively used for on the bigger titles. Gauging the reception the title will get. The difference is whether the dev is experienced enough to ignore most of it or not, and resist the "suggestions" that turn up on their desk afterwards. |
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blood-omen - August 04, 2010 (12:32 PM) peace......no need to fight....everyone has their own opinion....y do we need to force our opinion on others????? |
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zippdementia - August 04, 2010 (08:41 PM) Blood Omen, meet Running Free. You'll learn to love our very own pet troll. |
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Suskie - August 04, 2010 (09:08 PM) Yeah, I wouldn't worry about him. He shows up every once in a while and tries to annoy us, and then takes off for a few weeks when he realizes we're just making fun of him. |
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blood-omen - August 04, 2010 (09:50 PM) oh yeah.....RunningFree, i forgot about him/her.....yeah he/she came by a few weeks back and had totally forgotten abt him/her since then....thanx for coming back RF..... |
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fleinn - August 05, 2010 (04:42 AM) ..but you see - that type of poster is the centre of attention on the "community" sites. They give perfect feedback in thumbs up or thumbs down form, always fitted to the question the overlords are asking. Like this: Q:"Do you adore, or just worship the devs for giving you the greatest fps-experience ever made!?" A: Oooh, that's a difficult one, but I have to go with adore. I'm not a fanbot, after all. |
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blood-omen - August 05, 2010 (05:03 AM) ahahhahaa!!!!!! |
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fleinn - August 05, 2010 (05:08 AM) ..nothing funny about it, blood-omen. It's exactly what happens. |
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RunningFree - August 05, 2010 (06:36 AM) Video games are a joke. Gamer community is even a bigger joke. Just look at the number of replies Roger Ebert's article “Video Games Can Never Be Art”. It's like momentarily, fractions that normally can't stand each other unite (pc gamers , console gamers) to get rid of the evil empire. If there were more 'community members' like I, there would be less people playing video game, and watching/playing sports like football (soccer)instead(which is more strategic and elegant than StarCraft or any other electronic strategy game ,BTW). Hell, that dumb faggot Jason Venter didn't even know that World Cup takes place every 4 years before Ben told him. You want to befriend such community with members consist of such ignoramous ? |
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fleinn - August 05, 2010 (06:54 AM) So I guess you're not completely random after all, hm? :p But you've heard it before - we (if I can say "we" about the site) are interested in good explanations and descriptions. Not flat declarations (no matter how true they may or may not be). |
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RunningFree - August 05, 2010 (07:15 AM) Oh, yeah, throw in everything in your game journalism repertoire in a secluded game website that isn't even taken seriously . |
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fleinn - August 05, 2010 (08:24 AM) ..games are not serious business anyway, are they? :p |
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zippdementia - August 05, 2010 (01:00 PM) Don't games bring on a lot of seclusion, too? |
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blood-omen - August 05, 2010 (01:28 PM) seriously,are games serious business???? :P |
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fleinn - August 05, 2010 (04:37 PM) We seem to be representative after all, zipp. |
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blood-omen - August 05, 2010 (09:36 PM) so is seclusion bad? |
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RunningFree - August 07, 2010 (06:18 AM) Speak of the devil. The lowest form of complaint. Here. Am I supposed to give a shit about these characters? Who gave these maggots the idea that video games have to have characters that induce emotional attachment , character development, and plot twists ? Gamers are only supposed to ACTIVATE THE ABILITIES of their characters via keyboards or controllers or joystick and NOT to BECOME those characters themselves. I read somewhere that Bayonetta is supposed to suck because it has minimal 'character development'. Probably on the same patheticness level is the complaint 'not-immersive' or 'being taken out of experience' or 'realising that you're sitting on a couch and playing a game instead of saving the universe' . Load screens and menus have no place in gaming because 'they take you out of the experience'.I mean you are holding a controller,pressing its buttons and there is a tv screen separating from the 'universe you are supposed to save' . How much 'not being taken out of the experience' does one expect ? What a bunch of gullable, deluded worms . |
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zigfried - August 07, 2010 (08:07 AM) RunningFree, caring about the characters in a game does not mean people are trying to "become the characters themselves". The difference is so obvious that I'm not even going to explain it. I think you also misunderstand why people complain about games not being immersive. People can become immersed in anything -- playing Bayonetta, playing Dance Dance Revolution, driving long distances, having sex, or pulling weeds. When people say they are taken out of the experience, what they're saying is that they just realized they're doing something useless ("having fun" counts as useful). Yes, it's overdramatic when people say they suddenly remembered they're "sitting on a couch pushing buttons" -- how could someone forget? -- but complaints about immersion are not the same thing. I know you're trolling, but you're far too eager to tear other people down, and you're doing it carelessly. If you reduce people to the level of maggots/worms, what does that make you when you attack their words? At best, you're just a worm-killer. At worst, you're a fool who can't even beat a worm. A smart troll mentally casts others' ideas in the best possible light before attacking. Then, to those who step outside their emotional shells, they appear to be a mighty god-slayer. //Zig |
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Genj - August 07, 2010 (08:57 AM) RunningFree is a very sophisticated troll:  |
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zippdementia - August 07, 2010 (09:47 AM) We'll know we're not a secluded site that no one cares about when we get a better class of troll under our bridge. Ours has asthma and diabetes and is strict vegan. |
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RunningFree - August 07, 2010 (12:17 PM) I meant that gamers can't become the protagonist(s) they are playing , therefore why should they care if the other playable or non-playable characters that surround him (them) are lovable or not. In narrative arts (which video games are NOT), the scriptwriters already determined HOW the characters interact with each others . It is the specific executions of those interaction that win our empathy / sympathy (How Michael Corleone removed his father to another hospital ward so that the opposing mafia can't assasinate him, or how CC Baxter genuinely tried to intermediate the relationship between his boss (married) and an elevator girl who works in his office ,although he is torn apart inside because he is very fond of the girl and knew that his boss is only using her). Those kind of specificness and precision don't occure in video games nor ever will due to the interactivity. Those game characters don't have any meaning to you unlike movie characters toward each other. Developers think it is 'specific and precise' to enable gamers to walk toward a playable character ,talk to her/him and then choose options from dialogue trees ,or it is 'specific and precise' to have cinematic cutscenes .They are delluding themselves. The motivation of Michael Corleone in removing his father is to save his father from harm's way, he sacrificed his stance of not being involved in mafia business, that wins him my empathy , my motivation in playing games is to have fun.If i'm bored with a game or want to take a piss ,i could't care less to continue playing. I don't feel responsible toward a video game or its characters. I don't have a father who works for water-cleansing project in Fallout 3, he is someone else's father.I am not 'immersed' in the virtual world that i can't tell the difference between the people inside it and the reality . |
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zippdementia - August 07, 2010 (12:24 PM) I guess you never played ICO, Heavy Rain, Starcraft, Illusion of Gaia, Persona, or any number of other games where the narrative is a primary focus of the video game. Your argument is a little confused, though I can never be sure if you're actually arguing for any point or if you just like to post stuff. Basically you've said video games don't have character motivations or stories. ... I kept writing after this point before I realized it doesn't really matter. Imma go back to playing Starcraft II because I want to find out what happens between Jim Raynor and Kerrigan. |
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RunningFree - August 07, 2010 (12:27 PM) Why would playing those games change my mind ? |
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zippdementia - August 07, 2010 (12:57 PM) Indeed you did. I can't deny that that is what you did. |
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Genj - August 07, 2010 (01:17 PM) I meant that gamers can't become the protagonist(s) they are playing , therefore why should they care if the other playable or non-playable characters that surround him (them) are lovable or not. In narrative arts (which video games are NOT), the scriptwriters already determined HOW the characters interact with each others . It is the specific executions of those interaction that win our emphaty / symphathy (How Michael Corleone removed his father to another hospital ward so that the opposing mafia can't assasinate him, or how CC Baxter genuinely tried to intermediate the relationship between his boss (married) and en elevator girl that works in his office ,although he is torn apart inside because he is very fond of the girl and knew that his boss is only using her). Those kind of specificness and precision don't occure in video games nor ever will due to the interactivity. Developers think it is 'specific and precise' to enable gamers to walk toward a playable character ,talk to her/him and then choose options from dialogue trees ,or it is 'specific and precise' to have cinematic cutscenes . The motivation of Michael Corleone in removing his father is to save his father from harm's way, he sacrificed his stance of not being involved in mafia business, that wins him my emphaty , my motivation in playing games is to have fun.If i'm bored with a game or want to take a piss ,i could't care less to continue playing. I don't feel responsible toward a video game or its characters. I don't have a father who works for water-cleansing project in Fallout 3, he is someone else's father.I am not 'immersed' in the virtual world that i can't tell the difference between the people inside it and the reality . How many Orson Welles films have you jerked off to? |
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hmd - August 07, 2010 (01:27 PM) Ban everyone. Strike the forums. Issue sackcloth and ashes to every man, woman and child. Repeal all videogames. We are going into the desert where only YHWH can provide. If he does not then we shall perish. I hope we do. There is nothing left to live for. |
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blood-omen - August 08, 2010 (11:31 AM) is it over????? :P |
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fleinn - August 08, 2010 (01:04 PM) I don't know. I don't want to look yet. |
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blood-omen - August 08, 2010 (09:48 PM) hahaaha.....me neither :P look at the topic and just look at where it went..... |
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